February 12, 2002

Subject: Virgen Maria
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 09:25:00 -0600
From: "Arturo Lopez" <ar.lopez@edinburg.esc1.net>
To: <almalopez@earthlink.com>


Alma, I saw the picture you posted on your website of the Virgen Maria.
I'm sorry but I was really ofended by it.  First of all the woman representing the virgen does not have a decent look on her face. It looks to erotic. And the Virgen Maria being nude is a slap on all catholics like myself.  If you want to display nude models, don't do it with religious icons.
 
Arturo Lopez

 

Subject: Re: Myth and anti-myth
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:05:08 EST
From: Sedeno7@aol.com
To: AztlanNet@yahoogroups.com
CC: almalopez@earthlink.net, oromano@tqsbooks.com, amora@osogrande.com, joeyspouch2004@yahoo.com, happyhermit@earthlink.net, rosamwill@aol.comoromano@tqsbooks.com wrote:

Question:  How often is the anti-myth a myth?
At first, this question seemed like one of those "what is the meaning of life" retorts,  but on second thought, this is an interesting question to pose in the whole "our lady" debate.
  

Given that Alma Lopez considers that the Guadalupe apparition is a myth, then the work could be said to function as an anti-myth,   This function is carried out by  her replacing the iconography in the manta with that of the Coyolxauqui stone, touching upon the myth involving a goddess who was dismembered by her brother, Huitzilopochtli, in retaliation for her machinations against him while he was in the womb of their mother Coatlicue.  I am informed by a woman Conchera dancer in NM that the invocation of Coyolxauqui in feminist pagan religion  is the attempt to re-member this sister deity, to re-member her and a need to  retaliate, mythically, to the destructive deed of the male deity Huitzilopochtli who dis-membered her. . In effect, an anti-myth of retaliation, to remember grievances,  to counter  the "myth" of compassion communicated by the deity Guadalupe-Tonantzin. i.e. of letting go of grievances and forgiving.
              

This knowledge has helped me understand the "our lady" more as a commercial airing female grievances, and is, in a sense, a poster for a Chicana hybrid-mythology gleaned through a process of intellectual tourism by the artist Alma Lopez through the land of myths.   The "our lady" is actually not an interpretation of Guadalupe at all, if anything about Guadalupe is that Alma Lopez disagrees ideologically with Guadalupe, showing such through the Coyolxauqui reference , and also, obviously in the change of stance or pose of the female figure.  Alma's concept of feminine strength is that of a woman ready to retaliate, not one prepared to bestow compassion.   Depicted are princesses of destruction, not the Queen of creation.
                   

Alma Lopez' and her supporters' mistake is to claim that her piece is an interpretation of Guadalupe, much less a valid one.  The work is more about the myth of the ego of Alma Lopez , an ego that deceives her to believe "retaliate, don't forgive", an anti-myth made to stand up to the creation of compassion.   This analysis can be applied also to the La Lupe series as a whole.  Guadalupe does not cavort with La Sirena, who does not exist, except in myths and loteria cards and in the myth, in my opinion, that Alma Lopez actually cares about the feelings of respect or value a viewer may have for Guadalupe-Tonantzin, our compassionate Mother.
       

-PRSedeno   mfa

 

Subject: AztlanNet: Re: Myth and anti-myth
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 12:07:57 -0800
From: Octavio Romano <oromano@tqsbooks.com>
Reply-To: AztlanNet@yahoogroups.com
Organization: TQS Publications
To: Sedeno7@aol.com, AztlanNet@yahoogroups.com
References: 1

Don Pedro:
Regardless of beliefs, one way or another, you have written the best review yet of the "Guadalupe" work by Alma Lopez.  Excellent analysis..  Best exposure of "art" as focused one-issue agitprop.
Octavio Romano

 

Subject: Re: AztlanNet: Re: Myth and anti-myth
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 13:46:28 -0700
From: Alma Lopez <almalopez@earthlink.net>
Reply-To: AztlanNet@yahoogroups.com
To: AztlanNet@yahoogroups.com
References: 1 , 2

Octavio Romano wrote:
>
> Don Pedro:
>
> Regardless of beliefs, one way or another, you have written the best
> review yet of the "Guadalupe" work
> by Alma Lopez.  Excellent analysis..  Best exposure of "art" as
> focused one-issue agitprop.
>
> Octavio Romano
> ============

Octavio and Pedro,

According to your standards, this is the best review yet... however the best are still to come, and are currently being researched and written by scholars in chicana/o studies, american studies, and gender studies, etc. And many have been written in letters/emails sent to me and the museum. Check out the next AZTLAN: A Journal of Chicano Studies or last Aug/Sept issue of Ms Magazine.

Like with the image of Guadalupe, I am not doing anything new by incorporating the image of Coyolxauhqui. The Coyolxauhqui image is included in the work of many Chicanas including writers Gloria Anzaldua and Cherrie Moraga and Alma Cervantez, and tattoed on a few Chicanas that I know, as a myth/image of "re-membering." Why is a healing image for Chicanas necessarily a "retaliation" image for Chicanos like Pedro?

Why is the only "valid" female Guadalupe image a "compassionate" mother? I am glad that Pedro is finally realizing that "Our Lady" is not his mother Guadalupe. Is Guadalupe really your mother? Do you accept it blindly/faithfully, without considering the possibility of an image used to convert and colonize? "Our Lady" is a Guadalupe image in the Chicana/o art tradition of re-interpreting the icon/image of Guadalupe. "Our Lady" is about the complex Guadalupe image, but also Chicana as woman, mother, sister, daughter... Perhaps Pedro will realize the difference between a print in a museum and an image in a church. Once he realizes that, then we can move on to his role in censorship of Chicana/o art in museums, since he feels it's appropriate to exhibit this image only in galleries.

"(Alma) Lopez is hardly the first artist to subvert the image of Guadalupe. In the last quarter century, dozens of other Latina artists, performers, and writers, like Ester Hernandez and Yolanda M. Lopez, have done the same thing. And like them, Lopez has come under fire from conservative Catholics, especially Latinos, for re-envisioning, the primary female icon of their religion and culture.... Guadalupe is also a part of the art and spirituality of Santa Barraza, a Texas-based artist who is the subject of a recent book, Santa Barraza: Artist of the Borderlands. Barraza, like many scholars and historians, traces Guadalupe's roots to the Aztec earth mother, Tonantzin, and other female icons of Aztec cosmology. Raised a Roman Catholic, Barraza says she became disillusioned with the Church's oppression of indigenous people, including her ancestors. She has created her own spiritual practice by combining Catholicism with what she calls "pagan Catholicism," curanderismo (folk healing), and devotion to indigenous icons. In Barraza's painting entitled La Lupe Tejana, the Virgin's cloak does not bear the traditional stars, but rahter pre-Columbian symbols. Also on display are the distinctive outline of the state of Texas and references to farm workers... Many Chicana artists reach back to the Aztec culture in what is essentially a search for their own history." Ms Magazine, Aug/Sept 2001, pages 85-87

 

Subject: Alma Lopez/Pedro Romero dialogue
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 16:35:41 EST
From: Sedeno7@aol.com
To: AztlanNet@yahoogroups.com
CC: almalopez@earthlink.net, gbejerano@aztlannet.com, rosamwill@aol.com, joeyspouch2004@yahoo.com, PuroMando@aol.com, oromano@tqsbooks.com, kaytiejohnson@yahoo.com

Alma, thanks for participating in this dialogue, as recently as Feb. 6., 2002.    It has helped me to understand your work and the issues communicated.  I wish to respond with this art criticisism.    I am not an art historian.  But I believe I  articulate  a valid analysis of your work:
______________________________________________________________________
            
             My final conclusion  is that the work "Our Lady" by Alma Lopez  is weak.  It is highly derivative, showing excellent craft, but in substance, pretty thin. Aside from shuffling around some of the design motifs of Guadalupe and embedding the Coyolxauqhui stone, what's there besides some vibrant colors?
             Ideologically,  Ms. Lopez is taking issue with the Icon's figure as to its depiction of feminine strength, and  communicates an alternative concept of feminine strength with "our lady".  This, if anything, is what Alma has stated is the major concern in the work.  In regards to feminine strength depicted in art,  yes, the feminine form has power, beauty.  But matriarchal power has been, since ancient times, the  supreme qualifier used to depict feminine strength, by male and female artists alike.  I could elaborate on this issue more,  of couse,  but here I can only say that I do not read matriarchal power in "our lady".  It's just not in the work.  Nor in the context Alma uses to inform the work, as per her website, CyberArte, or quotes she has posted in the Alma Lopez/Pedro Romero dialogue.  Her Raquelas may be beautiful and strong figures, but they are not matriarchs in any sense of the word.  
              The Guadalupe context, however, is all mother,  whether one takes the account as real or not.  The maiden is signified as pregnant by her cinta, the cord used by peasant women of many cultures, wrapped around the waist, to make them STRONGER during pregnancy and for carrying  the child  to term.  The maiden's tunic bulges some over the womb.  Please refer to A Handbook on Guadalupe, Park Press, Inc., 1997 which reveals other info relevant to the motherhood signification, or read the message given by Guadalupe in the account of the apparition, the Nican Mopohua.  
           
          In her ideological squabble with the Image as to femine strength, Alma, I believe, has not been the victor.  She has depicted princesses, but not the queen, the mother.  This is why I say the work is thin.   The roses and nudity are not powerful enough in themselves to make this a strong statement, not about Guadalupe, anyways.  As per her treatment of the manta adorning the figures in the icon and  her alternative image, I will quote from my posting on the listserve AztlanNet@yahoogroups.com re subject:  Myth and Anti-myth:
         "Given that Alma Lopez considers that the Guadalupe apparition is a myth, then the work could be said to function as an anti-myth,   This function is carried out by  her replacing the iconography in the manta with that of the Coyolxauqui stone, touching upon the myth involving a goddess who was dismembered by her brother, Huitzilopochtli, in retaliation for her machinations against him while he was in the womb of their mother Coatlicue.  A woman Conchera dancer in NM informs me that the invocation of Coyolxauqui in feminist pagan religion is the attempt to re-member this sister deity, to re-member her and a need to  seek atonement for or to retaliate, mythically, to the destructive deed of the male deity Huitzilopochtli who dis-membered her. . In effect, what we have here is  an anti-myth of reparation, to remember grievances,  to counter  the "myth" of compassion communicated by the deity Guadalupe-Tonantzin: i.e. the  letting go of  and non-remembering of grievances and thus, forgiveness, compassion.
              This knowledge has helped me understand the "our lady" more as a digital commercial airing female grievances, and is, in a sense, a poster for a Chicana hybrid mythology gleaned through a process of intellectual tourism by the artist Alma Lopez through the land of myths.
  The "our lady" is actually not an interpretation of Guadalupe at all,. If anything connencted to  Guadalupe is that Alma Lopez disagrees ideologically with Guadalupe, showing such through the Coyolxauqui reference , and also, obviously in the change of stance or pose of the female figure.  Alma's concept of feminine strength is that of a woman, defiant, ready to retaliate, not one prepared to bestow compassion.   Depicted are princesses of destruction, not the Queen of creation.
                  Alma Lopez' and her supporters' mistake is to claim that her piece is an interpretation of Guadalupe, much less, a valid one.  The work is more about the myth of the ego of Alma Lopez , an ego that deceives her to believe "retaliate, don't forgive", an anti-myth made to stand up to the creation of compassion."
                  The piece is more a statement of Alma's body-identification rather than her spirit-identification. This  confusion between  spirituality and concern for bodies can be further analyzed in the La Lupe series as a whole.  Guadalupe is shown fondling the breast of the naked mermaid La Sirena, a folk image that really does not exist, except in myths and on loteria cards.  Apparently, the Image of Guadalupe is just a souvenir Alma Lopez has collected in her tour of the land of myths, food for the making of another new and improved souvenir.
            In the Spanish language,  "Our Lady" translates to "Nuestra Senora" as with Nuestra Senora de Guadalupe,  "Our Lady of Guadalupe".   What is titled "Our Lady" by Alma Lopez may stand in English, but not in Spanish. What is portrayed no es Senora ni Nuestra; ella es Senorita.  
             To distort a pueblo's principal religious icon, and an icon that led  the shaping of a whole nation's history and cultural identity is a very, very serious act to be held accountable for.   Accountability for or responsibility to what one says comes along with the freedom of speech; every artist or art museum or art critic should know that.                                     
copyright   Pedro Romero Sedeno  m.f.a.  2002
______________________________________________________________________           

Alma, If I can offer you a word of advice: you are not prepared to take on the subject matter of Our Lady of Guadalupe.  For  one, you have told me in this dialogue that your understanding, as articulated for you by a Mexican man, Guillermo Gomez- Pena , is an understanding of Her "culturally and ethnically".  Please know there is an infinite depth of understanding one can gain on the subject when one looks at the image of nuestra Senor with the eye of faith, and understands or relates to it spiritually, transcendant to a perception  cultural or ethnic.  Evidently, to you the tilma Image is something out of a storybook, an account which never took place.                                  
              Please know that there are many of us across this continent that look upon the Image and see a mystery, a mystery of the Divine, one of those mysteries that inform and enrich and romance our inner lives, not just our culture and  ethnicity.  Yes, you are right, Alma, you and I  are looking upon the Image from two different worlds.  Please know that when I look upon It, I see reality, but Reality with a capital R.  Otherwise, "all is vanity", as it is written.
           I have gathered that you showed your Lupe series to people in Mexico. May I ask, who did you show it to?  I wonder if perhaps you only got feedback from Mexican anarchists.     Let me offer you a tip: please, for your own sake,  don't display this series on the streets of Mexico City on Dec. 12, El Dia de Nuestra Senora, because I don't think you will return to the US in one piece.  This is important for you to recognize, for your own safety.  I'm not being facetious, many Mexicans I have discussed the work with say you would meet an unpleasant fate.
              Please know or at least acknowledge that I reiterated that I have never advocated censorship of your work.     Respectfully submitted,   Pedro Romero Sedeno  mfa

 

Subject: AztlanNet: Re: Alma Lopez/Pedro Romero dialogue
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 13:58:22 -0700
From: Alma Lopez <almalopez@earthlink.net>
Reply-To: AztlanNet@yahoogroups.com
To: Sedeno7@aol.com
CC: AztlanNet@yahoogroups.com, gbejerano@aztlannet.com, rosamwill@aol.com, joeyspouch2004@yahoo.com, PuroMando@aol.com, oromano@tqsbooks.com, kaytiejohnson@yahoo.com
References: 1

>              My final conclusion  is that the work "Our Lady" by Alma Lopez  is weak.  It is highly derivative, showing excellent craft, but in substance, pretty thin. Aside from shuffling around some of the design motifs of Guadalupe and embedding the Coyolxauqhui stone, what's there besides some vibrant colors?OK. I have read your "final conclusions." They are authored by an
artist with an mfa.

I am an artist with an mfa too, so your conclusion of my work doesn't have any more bearing or weight than mine. Its simply your opinion. You have a right to your opinion, and I have a right to mine.

>            I have gathered that you showed your Lupe series to people in Mexico. May I ask, who did you show it to?  I wonder if perhaps you only got feedback from Mexican anarchists.     Let me offer you a tip: please, for your own sake,  don't display this series on the streets of Mexico City on Dec. 12, El Dia de Nuestra Senora, because I don't think you will return to the US in one piece.  This is important for you to recognize, for your own safety.  I'm not being facetious, many Mexicans I have discussed the work with say you would meet an unpleasant fate.

Such violence from people who only accept a "compassionate" mother figure.

>
>               Please know or at least acknowledge that I reiterated that I have never advocated censorship of your work.     Respectfully submitted,   Pedro Romero Sedeno  mfa

You have said that my work does not belong in the museum, but should be exhibited in a gallery. So you are only advocating for the censorship of my work in museums? Respectfully responding, Alma Lorena Lopez mfa

 

Subject: Re: AztlanNet: Alma Lopez/Pedro Romero dialogue
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 22:56:01
From: "Marco Loera" <m_loera@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: AztlanNet@yahoogroups.com
To: AztlanNet@yahoogroups.com...

"Alma, If I can offer you a word of advice: you are not prepared to take on the subject matter of Our Lady of Guadalupe. For one, you have told me in this dialogue that your understanding, as articulated for you by a Mexican man, Guillermo Gomez- Pena , is an understanding of Her "culturally and ethnically". Please know there is an infinite depth of understanding one can gain on the subject when one looks at the image of nuestra Senor with the eye of faith, and understands or relates to it spiritually, transcendant to a perception cultural or ethnic. Evidently, to you the tilma Image is something out of a storybook, an account which never took place."

...hmm, is Guillermo Gomez-Pena (just) a Mexican man? I would say that he has been involved in the Chicanoa culture ,in several capacities for many years, enough to be critical from the Chicanoa perspective (I believ he considers himself a "Canochi," right?). I respect your opinions, but to me the critique has been divided on a secular vs. Christian perspective...and, just for clarity, I don't believe in any organized religion. Spirituality, I do believe in.

"I have gathered that you showed your Lupe series to people in Mexico. May I ask, who did you show it to? I wonder if perhaps you only got feedback from Mexican anarchists. Let me offer you a tip: please, for your own sake, don't display this series on the streets of Mexico City on Dec. 12, El Dia de Nuestra Senora, because I don't think you will return to the US in one piece. This is important for you to recognize, for your own safety. I'm not being facetious, many Mexicans I have discussed the work with say you would meet an unpleasant fate."

...I do think this constitutes some kind of religious moral contradiction...violently reprimanding someone to defend the visual representaion a "compassionate" mother? And since when did Mexicanos regard Chicanoa work as virtuous? I thought we were still Pochos?This is just my opinion. Some people consider me an artist. It really doesn't matter to me. I will have my MFA on May 18th (if you think that gives me credibility...or maybe I should have waited till May 18th to write this, if you think that piece of paper gives me more credibility).
-Marco

 

Subject: AztlanNet: Alma Lopez/Pedro Romero dialogue.
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 19:46:03 EST
From: Sedeno7@aol.com
Reply-To: AztlanNet@yahoogroups.com
To: AztlanNet@yahoogroups.com
CC: gbejerano@aztlannet.com

You have said that my work does not belong in the museum, but should be exhibited in a gallery.  So you are only advocating for the censorship of my work in museums?
Respectfully responding, Alma Lorena Lopez mfa

 

Alma, no, I am not advocating for the censorship of you work in museums, or anywhere else for that matter.  You misquote me. Your contention about  " his (Pedro's) role in censorship of Chicana/o art in museums" is an absolute and vicious lie, my friend, STOP IT! stop twisting my words and my "role" here.   I said that I  felt that a more appropriate venue for your work was a gallery.  A  museum can show bad art if it  chooses to, (they often times do),  but I think they should qualify it as such, especially a publicly-funded one that gets its funds by stating its mission is to be educational.  A museum fails in its responsibilities if it is showing a misrepresentation of a tradition, in this case, of the Hispanic folk art tradition, which is the domain of the MOIFA's purview.  There are  other expressions besides what was shown in CyberArte where tradition can meet technology and is NOT sent to Trash Bin, as per the tradition of a clothed maiden signifying Guadalupe.  
         A gallery does not have to follow an educational mission and that's why I said a gallery would be more apropriate for your work in question.  I felt the MOIFA made various errors with Cyberarte, and my attempts to correct them were through community education and cultural intervention, not censorship.   I reiterate, I have never advocated censorship of your work. (period)!       Can we move on?

Alma Lorena Lopez also  writes:        OK.  I have read your "final conclusions."  They are authored by an artist with an mfa. I am an artist with an mfa too, so your conclusion of my work doesn't have any more bearing or weight than mine.  Its simply your opinion.  You have a right to your opinion, and I have a right to mine.

Alma, please stop with the smokescreens and start refuting my arguments about your work. If you don't  refute them, then you concede that my  "opinion" must be correct, w/ or wo/ an mfa.  Quit sidetracking about your "rights" and dialogue about your work, please.     You haven't submitted a single answer to the questions I have asked you ABOUT THE WORK during the course of this dialogue you initiated Feb. 2 with your posting "The Education of Pedro Romero Sedeno". At least you spelled my name right.    BTW, Lorena is a beautiful name.

about showing "our lady" in Mexico and the reaction of Mexicans to it, alma wrote: Such violence from people who only accept a "compassionate" mother figure.

Alma, you just don't get it, my friend.  The Guadalupe is integral to the Mexican cultural identity and political history. I know Mexicans, personally, who are not believers nor religionists, per se, but who do accept the Image as a significant symbol of what it is to be Mexican, and a proud Mexican.  There will be those that will see your work as that of a gringa from up north making fun of "lo que es Mejicano" and may give you a good porazo upside the head, norteamericana.   Then, there are religionists that do not fully understand the non-violent tenets of Jesus and Guadalupe. Alma, you just don't know Mexico, do you?.  I do believe you suffer from cultural amnesia. Oh well, at least I warned you.  Will you ever answer my question: who did you show your work to in Mexico.?

alma writes :    "Our Lady" is about the complex Guadalupe image, but also Chicana as woman, mother, sister, daughter.

ok, alma, show us where your "Our Lady" is about mother.    and please don't refer to the breasts on the "angel" because I didn't see them lactating.  If you don't show the mother, then it's not about the Guadalupe most raza knows.   Ask Santa Barazza, maybe she has a different opinion. .    BTW,  in Santa's  work, Guadalupe is portrayed by the clothes She wears, amongst other things.  The cinta is probably the most crucial  signifier I refer to in my arguments.  Your semi-nude maidens do not portray Guadalupe, simply because it is your "opinion" that they do.  The work is not informed by the mother, Nuestra Senora, where is this communicated in your work?  

 

Subject: Re: AztlanNet: Alma Lopez/Pedro Romero dialogue.
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 19:31:13 -0700
From: Alma Lopez <almalopez@earthlink.net>
Reply-To: AztlanNet@yahoogroups.com
To: AztlanNet@yahoogroups.com
References: 1

Sedeno7@aol.com wrote:
>          A gallery does not have to follow an educational mission and that's why I said a gallery would be more apropriate for your work in question.  I felt the MOIFA made various errors with Cyberarte, and my attempts to correct them were through community education and cultural intervention, not censorship.   I reiterate, I have never advocated censorship of your work. (period)!       Can we move on?

You may not agree that the exhibition was educational, but it was. Its intent was to demonstrate how traditional iconography and new technologies are combined in the work of four Chicana/Latina/Hispana artists - three of them from NM and me the outsider from California. And like I have stated before, my work is well within a Chicana/o art tradition. In solidarity with me and to take a stand against censorship of Latina artists, the three Nuevo Mexicana artists asked that their work be removed if my work was removed.

> Alma, please stop with the smokescreens and start refuting my arguments about your work. If you don't  refute them, then you concede that my  "opinion" must be correct, w/ or wo/ an mfa.  Quit sidetracking about your "rights" and dialogue about your work, please.

I am not saying your opinion is correct. All I am saying is that it is your opinion and you have a right to express it. That is all. Or do you think your opinion/views are more important? If so, why?

> Alma, you just don't get it, my friend.  The Guadalupe is integral to the Mexican cultural identity and political history. I know Mexicans, personally, who are not believers nor religionists, per se, but who do accept the Image as a significant symbol of what it is to be Mexican, and a proud Mexican.  There will be those that will see your work as that of a gringa from up north making fun of "lo que es Mejicano" and may give you a good porazo upside the head, norteamericana.   Then, there are religionists that do not fully understand the non-violent tenets of Jesus and Guadalupe. Alma, you just don't know Mexico, do you?.  I do believe you suffer from cultural amnesia. Oh well, at least I warned you.  Will you ever answer my question: who did you show your work to in Mexico.?

Pedro, I know Mexico. I was born in Mexico. My aunts, uncles and cousins live in Mexico. I did segundo de secundario (8th grade) in Mexico City. Since I was a kid, I have traveled to Mexico every 2 to 3 years. The last time I was in Mexico City was in 1998 for the NACCS conference where I exhibited work. The last time I exhibited my work in Mexico was in Juarez, Chihuahua in 1999. The exhibition space was the local museum in Juarez when I received the Pollock/Siqueiros premio for visual arts for the US side of the border. I wouldn't exhibit in Mexico or anywhere if I am not invited. But I do, when I am invited.

>
> alma writes :    "Our Lady" is about the complex Guadalupe image, but also Chicana as woman, mother, sister, daughter.
>
> ok, alma, show us where your "Our Lady" is about mother.    and please don't refer to the breasts on the "angel" because I didn't see them lactating.  If you don't show the mother, then it's not about the Guadalupe most raza knows.   Ask Santa Barazza, maybe she has a different opinion. .    BTW,  in Santa's  work, Guadalupe is portrayed by the clothes She wears, amongst other things.  The cinta is probably the most crucial  signifier I refer to in my arguments.  Your semi-nude maidens do not portray Guadalupe, simply because it is your "opinion" that they do.  The work is not informed by the mother, Nuestra Senora, where is this communicated in your work?

You are right. I don't include the cinta, but I also don't include alot of other signifiers of the "traditional" Guadalupana, but then I have asked what is the purpose of artists portraying the same image over and over without any personal, social, political interpretation? It is mother/sister/daughter/woman because it is a female with a female body. And although the breast may not be literally lactating, they are full and for me, represent nurturing especially since I was breastfed. I am flipping through Santa Barraza's book Artist of the Borderlands, and I don't see the cinta in many but I do see Coyolxauhqui in one.